gfsdhgf sfhgs dfhfsg hgh fdhg sfhg s |
| | autopilot et roll | |
| | |
Author | Message |
---|
Mustard Admin
Number of posts : 93 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: autopilot et roll Fri 23 Mar - 3:55 | |
| Multistage nous crée un problème lors des vols en autopilot. il oblige d'utiliser la fonction roll et impose un cap de lancement. Ce qui revient à dire que quelque soit l'orientation du pad la fusée ira vers le cap désigné dans le fichier texte de l'autopilot. Il faudra donc un autopilot pour chaque type de mission (ISS, Mir)
Cependant en lancement manuel ce problème ne se pose pas, la Soyuz va bien dans la direction du pad.
------------------------------ Multistage does a problem with the flight using autopilot. It require a roll and a heading. So the pad orientation is not use and the launcher will go to the heading from the autopilot file. Si I must use an autopilot for each kind of scenario (ISS, MIR)
Nevertheless for a manual launch we don't have this problem, the Soyuz go in the heading of the pad orientation.
No way. | |
| | | Mustard Admin
Number of posts : 93 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Fri 23 Mar - 4:10 | |
| BrianJ a fait ce fichier autopilot, il n'a pas de roll au début ce qui a l'avantage de lancer la Soyuz sur le heading du pad.
-28=engine(0,0.00001,0.01) -27.99=engine(0.00001,0,0.01) -27.98=engine(0,0,1) -14=engine(0,100,14) 0=engine(100,100,1) 5=pitch(90,73,15) 20=pitch(73,68,10) 30=aoa(0) 157=fairing() 300=pitch(4,4,10) 310=disable(pitch) 10000000=roll(0,0,0,0,1)
Le roll a été mis à la fin. Cependant cela provoque une rotation folle à la fin du vol. Peut être faut il ajuster ce roll final. No matter si tu pouvais tester cela pur voir ce qu etu en pense.
a noter No matter que les lignes en rouge sont indispensable laisser le temps du retrait automatique du bras ombilical et la fumée du pad.
Last edited by on Fri 23 Mar - 4:43; edited 1 time in total | |
| | | No matter
Number of posts : 57 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Fri 23 Mar - 4:22 | |
| Ok, bonne idée, mais on risque d'avoir des soucis pour pitcher en négatif (soyuzTMA zet progress volent la tête en bas)
BTW, je cours tester. | |
| | | No matter
Number of posts : 57 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Fri 23 Mar - 4:49 | |
| 1er test OK mais la fusée est en vrille à la fin (on ne peut pas ajuster le roll final mais peut-être en l'interdisant juste à l'arrêt des moteur cela règlera le problème)
2ème test, fusée incontrollable à T approx. 100s (pas compris pourquoi d'ailleurs)
3ème test avec 10000000=roll(0,0,0,0,-1) pour tester si la fusée s'inclinait bien en négatif. ce fut le cas mais elle reviens en positif dès la première commande pitch >_<
Je vais me concentrer là dessus aujourd'hui.
Last edited by on Fri 23 Mar - 7:53; edited 1 time in total | |
| | | No matter
Number of posts : 57 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Fri 23 Mar - 5:10 | |
| OK, I get the fix! Forget aoa(0) and add xxx=disable(roll). Pay attention that xxx will have to be adjusted for LEO GTO and GEO. 10000000=roll(0,0,0,0,-1) will pitch the rocket down as wanted for tma and progress. Here is the last auto I have tested with a progress launch, full success - Quote :
- 0=engine(0,100,14)
24=pitch(86,85,5) 29=pitch(85,80,15) 44=pitch(80,70,15) 59=pitch(70,60,15) 74=pitch(60,50,15) 89=pitch(50,40,15) 104=pitch(40,30,15) 119=pitch(30,20,15) 134=pitch(20,17.5,110) 160=fairing() 244=pitch(17.5,15,50) 294=pitch(15,20,80) 374=pitch(20,14,60) 434=pitch(14,10,16) 450=pitch(10,10,40) 490=pitch(10,-10,46) 535=pitch(-10,-10,10) 539=engine(0,0,8 ) 545=pitch(-10,0,5) 550=pitch(0,0,10) 562=jettison() 563=disable(roll) 600=roll(0,0,0,0,-1) Note that I don't use the first line (-28... -27.99) since it will be a pain to wait | |
| | | BrianJ
Number of posts : 58 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Fri 23 Mar - 13:56 | |
| Bravo, No matter.
I will try your autopilot tomorrow.
I don't understand why the "aoa(0)" function is a problem.
But it's not a big problem ;-) | |
| | | No matter
Number of posts : 57 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Fri 23 Mar - 14:20 | |
| When present, aoa(0) forces Ariane to pitch up even if the rocket was pitching down (I presume it is that, but I didn't go too far on testing with aoa).
Note that this autopilot is "designed" to handle a 7 to 7.5t payload mass (soyuzTMAmass is about 7.2t) and LEO (approx 200x400km) I should work a little more on this autopilot as I want to obtain something like 205x225Km (I need to shut down engines 1 or 2 s earlier). EDIT: Launch azimuth : 63°(rocket) ; 243°(pad)
Thanks for the roll trick!
Last edited by on Fri 23 Mar - 15:36; edited 3 times in total | |
| | | No matter
Number of posts : 57 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Fri 23 Mar - 14:26 | |
| I forget to say this: I need to pitch down because this is the way SoyuzTMA and Progress are launched (not sure that it goes the same for satellites launches). So, if you want to launch the rocket to 0°, you will have to set the pad azimuth to 180° since the rocket will pitch down.
I need to investigate that, since this info was given to me a long time ago.
J'espère que tout le monde comprend mon anglais, Fred, Papy, c'est OK? | |
| | | No matter
Number of posts : 57 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Fri 23 Mar - 15:15 | |
| Hmm, i think we can even get a better autopilot by putting the "disable roll" command at T=540, just after 539=engine(0,0,8 ).
It was working well this afternoon but tonight the last stage took some yaw (yes, yaw ?!) just after TMA jettison.
I hope this to get fixed if I disable yaw as well.
------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ce sera sans doute encore mieux si nous plaçons l'instruction pour interdire le roll à T=540, juste après l'extinction des moteurs.
Tout marchait bien cet après -midi mais ce soir, le dernier étage a pris un peu de lacet (!?) juste après le largage du TMA. Rien de grave, vitesse très réduite et un simple quart de tour mais ennuyeux tout de même...
J'espère régler çà en interdisant tout lacet de la même façon qu'avec disable(roll). | |
| | | No matter
Number of posts : 57 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Fri 23 Mar - 15:48 | |
| WEIRD!! I get now the unwanted erratic roll/spin/yaw mix at t=620s approx. I didn't noticed it this afternoon because it happens 10s or more after TMA jettison. I think we will have to forget auto jettison and use "P" as soon as engine cutoff occurs to disable autopilot (not fixed by any disable roll yaw pitch command, I have noticed that it occurs other Multistage rockets). I can't understand something: I'm pretty sure that it didn't happens when I tested the progress launch this afternoon Sorry for that wrong fix | |
| | | Mustard Admin
Number of posts : 93 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Fri 23 Mar - 15:54 | |
| Merci pour votre travail à dessus. Ca ne va pas être simple. Le problème n'est pas très clair pour moi. Peux tu donner les lignes de ton dernier autopilot stp que je vois cela chez moi.
Ps: pour info, je compte mettre le Progress CVEL. Mai sj'aimerai bien aussi un scenario avec le Progress Pris de Momo.
Last edited by on Fri 23 Mar - 15:59; edited 1 time in total | |
| | | BrianJ
Number of posts : 58 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Fri 23 Mar - 15:59 | |
| [quote="No matter"]I forget to say this: I need to pitch down because this the way SoyuzTMA and Progress are launched (not sure that it goes the same for other launches). So, if you want to launch the rocket at 0°, you will have to set the pad to 180°.[quote] Hmmm. I did not consider this possibility. some ideas..... 1) I can change the LC1 menu display to Launcher Heading = 45 (so the pilot understands that if the head down (tête à la bas ?) position is used, the launch azimuth will be 225) or...... 2) I can add another line to the LC1 menu display so it will look like Launch Azimuth = 45 Launch Azimuth (Heads Down) = 225 or...... 3) I can make a 2nd attachment point for LC1, turned by 180, for launch in the heads down position. You can choose which attachment point to use when you make the launch scenario. Or it is possible to combine these ideas. I think I prefer a combination of ideas 1 + 3. Of course, maybe you think it is not necessary to change anything! What do you think? PS. I will examine the autopilot problem tomorrow :Dquot;No matter"]I forget to say this: I need to pitch down because this the way SoyuzTMA and Progress are launched (not sure that it goes the same for other launches). So, if you want to launch the rocket at 0°, you will have to set the pad to 180°.[quote] Hmmm. I did not consider this possibility. some ideas..... 1) I can change the LC1 menu display to Launcher Heading = 45 (so the pilot understands that if the head down (tête à la bas ?) position is used, the launch azimuth will be 225) or...... 2) I can add another line to the LC1 menu display so it will look like Launch Azimuth = 45 Launch Azimuth (Heads Down) = 225 or...... 3) I can make a 2nd attachment point for LC1, turned by 180, for launch in the heads down position. You can choose which attachment point to use when you make the launch scenario. Or it is possible to combine these ideas. I think I prefer a combination of ideas 1 + 3. Of course, maybe you think it is not necessary to change anything! What do you think? PS. I will examine the autopilot problem tomorrow | |
| | | No matter
Number of posts : 57 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Fri 23 Mar - 16:11 | |
| - Mustard wrote:
- Merci pour votre travail à dessus. Ca ne va pas être simple.
Le problème n'est pas très clair pour moi. Peux tu donner les lignes de ton dernier autopilot stp que je vois cela chez moi.
Ps: pour info, je compte mettre le Progress CVEL. Mai sj'aimerai bien aussi un scenario avec le Progress Pris de Momo. Pas de problème, j'avais déjà prévu çà. Je t'enverrai une config Progress et le fichier ProgressJ.ini (même histoire qu'avec le TMA, nous devons passer par une config temporaire pour avoir le fuel!). Mon dernier autopilote, qui est finalement un échec: - Quote :
- 0=engine(0,100,14)
24=pitch(86,85,5) 29=pitch(85,80,15) 44=pitch(80,70,15) 59=pitch(70,60,15) 74=pitch(60,50,15) 89=pitch(50,40,15) 104=pitch(40,30,15) 119=pitch(30,20,15) 134=pitch(20,17.5,110) 160=fairing() 244=pitch(17.5,15,50) 294=pitch(15,20,80) 374=pitch(20,14,60) 434=pitch(14,10,16) 450=pitch(10,10,40) 490=pitch(10,-10,46) 535=pitch(-10,-10,10) 539=engine(0,0,8) 540=disable(roll) 541=disable(yaw) 545=pitch(-10,0,5) 550=pitch(0,0,10) 561=disable(pitch) 562=jettison() 600=roll(0,0,0,0,-1) Je suis pourtant persuadé que celui écrit au-dessus fonctionnait bien avec mon lancement progress mais comme le spin fou démarre bien après le largage de la charge utile, j'étais peut-être tout simplement passé à côté. | |
| | | No matter
Number of posts : 57 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Fri 23 Mar - 16:22 | |
| BRIAN: (Head down = tête en bas) From my point of view, I am used to it so it don't need any changes but if we do that users will get confused. So I think you are right, the best way is a 1+3 combination.For the autopilot, I think we will have to shut down the fonction as soon as the autopilot stops engines, key "P". This unwanted spin / roll happens with normal autopilots too (no roll trick) and it may be a Multistage bug. Sometimes Ariane do that awfull roll / pitch /spin too. I will test that tomorow, | |
| | | BrianJ
Number of posts : 58 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Fri 23 Mar - 16:27 | |
| | |
| | | No matter
Number of posts : 57 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Sat 24 Mar - 6:00 | |
| Je pense avoir trouvé un bon compromis: - Quote :
- 0=engine(0,100,14)
24=pitch(86,85,5) 29=pitch(85,80,15) 44=pitch(80,70,15) 59=pitch(70,60,15) 74=pitch(60,50,15) 89=pitch(50,40,15) 104=pitch(40,30,15) 119=pitch(30,20,15) 134=pitch(20,17.5,110) 160=fairing() 244=pitch(17.5,15,50) 294=pitch(15,20,80) 374=pitch(20,14,60) 434=pitch(14,10,16) 450=pitch(10,10,40) 490=pitch(10,-10,46) 535=pitch(-10,-10,10) 539=engine(0,0,8) 545=pitch(-10,0,5) 550=pitch(0,0,10) 560=jettison() 570=pitch(0,0,500) 1000=roll(0,0,0,0,-1) On occupe tout simplement l'autopilote avec une commande pitch (à T=570) plutôt longue, ainsi si la fusée a envie de partir dans un méchant spin cela se fera largement plus tard et hors focus. _____________________________________________________________ I think I have a good alternative: ... The roll command is a bit delayed (T=1000) and with the line "570=pitch(0,0,500)" the autopilot will be busy maintaining pitch for 500s. If a bad spin/roll occurs it will be a long time after jettison and out of the focus.
Last edited by on Sat 24 Mar - 6:14; edited 1 time in total | |
| | | Mustard Admin
Number of posts : 93 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Sat 24 Mar - 6:12 | |
| Ok, je regarde cela sur mon PC lundi car là je suis absent ce week end. J'ai demandé à Well son exhaust, j'attend la réponse. | |
| | | No matter
Number of posts : 57 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Tue 3 Apr - 6:37 | |
| J'ai de très bon résultats pour la gestion de la pression avec l'autopilote. J'ai pu vérifier 2 valeurs correspondant au vrai profil de vol (500m/s à t=70s et 6000m/s à t= 7min 30s).
J'attends en revanche que tout soit sûr au niveau rotation et intégration/attachment avec LC1 pour viser une cible précise.
Une seule ombre au tableau, j'ai de nouveaux eu le problème de la rotation folle après séparation de la charge utile mais j'ai encore modifié les dernières lignes de l'auto en conséquence. | |
| | | Mustard Admin
Number of posts : 93 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Tue 3 Apr - 8:00 | |
| Ok pour l'autopilot. J'espère qu'on arrivera à quelques chose de stable. En attendant que BrianJ fix le problem de l'attachement je vais commencer à jeter une oeil sur les sons Soyuz. | |
| | | BrianJ
Number of posts : 58 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Fri 6 Apr - 4:49 | |
| Just a small idea - if you want to launch "head at base", you can make a special Soyuz.cfg and reverse the attachment like this: BEGIN_ATTACHMENT P 0 0 -13.8 0 0 -1 0 1 0 SZ END_ATTACHMENT// Juste une petite idée - si vous voulez lancer "tête en bas", vous pouvez faire un Soyuz.cfg spécial et renverser l'attachement comme ceci : BEGIN_ATTACHMENT P 0 0 -13.8 0 0 -1 0 1 0 SZ END_ATTACHMENT | |
| | | Mustard Admin
Number of posts : 93 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Fri 6 Apr - 9:08 | |
| A tester en effet, qu'en penses tu No matter ? | |
| | | No matter
Number of posts : 57 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Sat 7 Apr - 8:10 | |
| Je vais tester tout de suite ! | |
| | | No matter
Number of posts : 57 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Sat 7 Apr - 8:31 | |
| Je ne peux pas tester! Je n'ai pas encore la dll du 03 avril, j'ai celle du dernier pack (0.9) qui date du 30 mars.
I don't get the last dll version. Mine is from the last LC1 package (0.9 - dll version:30th of March instead of the 3rd of April).
BTW, I think it will be OK and more user friendly (I presume that the pad heading will be the one that we really target instead of being its opposite). | |
| | | BrianJ
Number of posts : 58 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Sat 7 Apr - 17:53 | |
| - No matter wrote:
- Je ne peux pas tester!
I don't get the last dll version. Mine is from the last LC1 package (0.9 - dll version:30th of March instead of the 3rd of April).
BTW, I think it will be OK and more user friendly (I presume that the pad heading will be the one that we really target instead of being its opposite). I have sent the blc1arms_dll_0304.zip to you (if Mustard has not sent it already) by email. It will always show the true Heading of the launcher ;-) , so you can use any attachment parameters. Cheers, Brian | |
| | | No matter
Number of posts : 57 Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll Sun 8 Apr - 1:13 | |
| Ok, thanks Brian. I have tested and it is working well as predicted. Attachment: P 0 0 -13.8 0 0 -1 0 1 0 SZ Autopilot, not perfect but should put any TMA or Progress (7220t) on more or less 180x220Km orbit : - Quote :
- -4=PlaySound(Sound\NM-soyuz\02soyuz_launch.wav)
0=engine(0,100,14) 15=engine(81,100,150) 24=pitch(86,85,5) 29=pitch(85,80,15) 44=pitch(80,70,15) 59=pitch(70,60,15) 74=pitch(60,50,15) 89=pitch(50,40,15) 104=pitch(40,30,15) 119=pitch(30,20,15) 134=pitch(20,17.5,110) 160=fairing() 244=pitch(17.5,15,50) 294=pitch(15,20,80) 374=pitch(20,14,60) 434=pitch(14,10,16) 450=pitch(10,10,40) 490=pitch(10,-10,42) 532=pitch(-10,-10,10) 542=pitch(-10,0,5) 545=engine(0,0,8) 547=pitch(0,0,10) 560=jettison() 561=pitch(0,0,500) 1000=roll(0,0,0,0,-1) I will test a little modification of the last two lines, something like: 561=pitch(0,0,3000) 3561=roll(0,0,0,0,-1) because of the fuc***g endless spin that we all know. | |
| | | Sponsored content
| Subject: Re: autopilot et roll | |
| |
| | | | autopilot et roll | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |
|